Not Done Yet — Not By A Long Shot

November 10, 2008

I tried a number of lead-ins for this post, but they all struggled until I said what I wanted to say, which was this:

Even after reading dozens of highly negative, disillusioned, sometimes vitriolic articles and posts about Warhammer Online, I’m still having a lot of fun with this game.  And last night, that thought made me rock back in my chair a bit and lifted up my spirits.

You see, even though we like to claim that we’re very much individuals who don’t care what the crowd thinks, we still do care.  We still listen, and if the crowd is swinging our way and agreeing with our perceptions, it’s a great feeling.  If it’s shouting that our viewpoint is wrong, then at best we are annoyed, and at worst start to be pulled to their thinking through peer pressure.  It’s why I don’t often read reviews of things I know I already like — because sooner or later, somebody’s going to state that whatever it is that I cherish actually sucks, and I’ll dissolve into a manly pool of tears or something.  But it affects me.  It makes me second-guess my position.  Sometimes that robs me of joy, but sometimes it challenges me to investigate the truth and actually strengthen my view.

In keeping tabs on all current and ex-WAR blogs out there, I’ve seen an absolute rollercoaster of emotion and opinion these past few weeks.  From doomcryers to apologetics to doubters to everything in between — but the bottom line is that all of these people, myself included, want to be assured that they either really like this game and want to stick with it, or they have reason enough to reject it forever and move on.  It’s encouraging to read blog posts that go, “I don’t know what these other people are on, but me and my friends are absolutely loving this game!”, as well as discouraging (but sometimes enlightening) to read posts where people WANT to love the game but are facing substantial obstacles to full-fledged acceptance.  I generally filter out haters who just want others to be miserable along with them, grr arrg and all that.

But last night, I had a small epiphany.  I played through the rest of my Dwarf Chapter 14 PQ (finally), gradually teaming up with five other people to tackle the hero boss and get us some phat lewts (as the kids say).  Then I saw that the keep in our area was under attack by Order, so I popped down and gave them a hand — using a battering ram for the first time, natch — and experienced the thrill of swamp keep ownership.  During all of this, as I am wont to do, I was making a mental list of things that were working and were not: parts of combat I liked, lag issues, tired loot, framerate, things that go “boom”.  I’m not here to be a fanboy but a player and a critic, so I criticize in the true sense of the word.  And with that, the epiphany hit — this is far from a perfect game, but something in it is “clicking” with me enough so that I want to play because it’s fun to play, not because I feel I have to.  It’s an indefinable quality where the sum of the parts are making this an enjoyable experience, although not a full-fledged obsession.

In making the transition to GameRiot (this week perhaps), in the face of a lot of negative posts, in my own admission of WAR’s flaws and faults, it was exciting to make a subconscious thought conscious: I like WAR, and I’m going to be around with it for a while.  Not because I’m obligated, but because it scratches an itch in my gaming life that I didn’t even know was there.

It’s a good thought to start the week of with.



  1. Gratz again with your GameRiot partnership. I wish that I could view your blog when you move but my company firewall will prevent me from doing that.

    It’s going to be a great game, and 1.05 will fix a ton of issues that people had who went back to WoW. I would say about 20% of them will come back to WAR and stick with it.

  2. I’d be interested in hearing your thoughts on the PTS if you have tried it. I am really worried about reduced TTK and the buff to ranged DPS turning the whole game into a battle at 100 feet because MDPS and even tanks just get fried by all the RDPS.

    In other words I think the solution was to nerf BW/Sorc damage down to Engy/SW/SH/Magus damage, not buff the other four up to BW/Sorc (or close).

    And now I think the solution would be to do across-all-careers-damage nerf to get TTK back up. I want to feel like if I play well (as MDPS) I have a chance to get in and get out alive, not that I am on a suicide run every time. And with my Engy, I did not think there was a serious dps problem before anyway ….

    TTK was such a huge focus in beta and I’m kind of surprised they want to shorten it.

  3. It’s great that you’re clicking with the content. It *is* a fun game. I’m curious though, do you miss the game when you’re not playing? The game itself, not your guild and your friends. You’ve gone on siesta’s since you began playing, so I know you’ve had time away when you couldn’t play.

    This is something that I’ve struggled with. I’ve had a lot of fun with WAR and can see its huge potential but when I’m not playing, I don’t miss it. It’s the ratio of world vs. game and that slant away from the traditional mmo bias towards “world” makes the game more disposable than I’d like.

    Maybe it’s just us though. Have you experienced this at all Syp?

  4. Nice post.

    I really agree with you on the fact that there are flaws, but when WAR gets something right it is a lot of fun. I really love the whole PQ thing, and when you can find a group they are a blast. I managed to run through part of the Hindleburg PQ in Black Fire Pass, and it was great fun. The dialog from the Warrior Priest that you need to protect in the 2nd and 3rd parts is hilarious.

    I am still having a lot of fun, and my guild is still rolling along, so I know I will be with the game for quite a while.

  5. I agree Syp, I am loving the game even with its flaws. The great thing is, most of these flaws can be fixed, and even the big flaws can be massaged into something great in time.

    @Raegn: I can say for myself that I miss the game alot when I’m not playing. I havn’t had the same “want-to-play” feeling since when I was in DAoC. I never got it in WoW (all 5 times I tried playing). I unfortunatly/fortunatly am in a different place in life now. By the time im done working, eat supper, play with the kids, and get them to bed….im freekin tired! I can see getting burnt out from lack of energy before being burnt out from lack of interest.

    As a side note: just checked the gameriot site at work and it is ,in fact, blocked. Guess I wont be commenting as much. =(

  6. i want to like this game but find myself most often feeling frustrated. let me explain. and id appreciate others telling me of their thoughts.

    i like to play ranged classes – almost always casters. i like playing a wiz or a sorc.

    i want to feel dangerous. a force to be reckoned with. if you dont kill me or make me run, you will be dead if not severely hurt or messed up in your plans. your healer will be having a hard time just keeping you alive, let alone others or himself.

    and this is what a ranged dps is about, right? this is what wiz or sorc do.

    now if no one could ever stop me from casting or even get to me because im just too powerful thatd be no fun or balanced or fair. id cast and kill with impunity. and even if they could get to me, if they couldnt stop me from utterly messing with them – what good would it be that they get to me then? they have to not only be able to get to me but kill me, or at least disrupt me. at least make me have to stop casting and run.

    so mythic has made it so i CAN be gotten to and i CAN be disrupted and i CAN be quickly and easily killed. i have to be very careful. i spend a LOT of time running – NOT being a force to be reckoned with.

    and this is fine, except, i dont feel im a force to be reockoned with. i feel like i kill others just as much, in face a lot less, than other classes.

    i want to get on the test server and verify if what im experiencing is setup that way. i want to have all classes equal in level stats etc. and i want to try to kill every class and then i want to see a witch elf try to kill every class. i want to see who kills first. ill bet you the witch does. seriously. ill be the mele dps classes would kill faster than i. i think most classes would.

    or maybe i could kill faster – but in reality, in the game id not be able to just cast and cast. id be running most the time. id probably be running from the guy im casting on. i cant kill if i dont cast. he’d slow me and kill me or at least keep me from doing anything.

    then i want to see who lasts the longest trying when the other classes try to kill. of course the witch will last longer than me and probably come out on top of most battles whereas ill die in every single one except for maybe vs another wiz/sorc.

    i want to see if in fact its true: that i kill less than another class and die more quickly than every other class.

    is that balanced? is it even fun?

    if im going to be targeted so much in pvp and able to be killed so quickly and having to run so often – then make it because im killing everyone and raising hell – not just that im easy to kill.

    why am i easy to kill? because im killing so many others? NOT. im doing a lot of damage. but they can take it. theyve more hps/armor/stats. and arent other classes doing a lot of damage too?

    just doesnt seemed balanced or fair. if im going to be so deadly, worthy of having low hps, then make me so deadly, worthy of low hps. nothing effective of cc.

    heres what id like to see: make me damage more. thats it. if i did more damage players would be like dang! wed better go take that guy out. hes killin us. or hes making it so the healer cant do anything much other than just heal the guy hes casting on. so go kill him and quick.

    i dont feel that now. i feel like im pretty much just killed because im easy to be killed.

    OR, make it so its a little bit more of a challenge for players to get to me, or i last a little longer once they do. as of now i simply have to run.

    so i dont do much killing. i spend a lot of time running. not casting. and meanwhile, seems nearly every other class is out there running around killing more than me – and killing me. me not them.

    comments appreciated. 🙂

  7. Me too. My logic is that if you don’t like it, there are plenty of other games out there to make you happy, there’s no need to be extending your discomfort for longer than necessary just because you feel you “have” to play the game.

  8. You nailed it again Syp! There are things wrong with this game, but there is far more to be excited about. I have become hooked to the scenario play. For me its not because of the quick lvling, it is the fun combat. Even if we get wiped I’m still doing it with a smile on my face.

  9. Even though this game makes me want to pull all of my hair out at times I am enjoying it immensely. It is truly the only MMO that I have played that I read blogs or forum posts about and even post my own thoughts.

    I have been playing MMOs since Meridian59 and have played many, many games but none have sparked my interest like this one has.

  10. I look forward to reading your blog everyday during lunch. Unfortuently gameriot is firewalled for me as well as Slurm and I imagine a few others. Is there a way to send a feed to your wordpress site or am I doomed to try to catch up on Waaagh in between cooking, cleaning, kids, wife, dogs, chores, fixing things and actually trying to find time to play War?

    *Sigh* I just realized I have more free time at work than I do at home.

  11. @ phatmhat I think I understand where you are coming from, but I have to disagree with you. Yes, getting your DPS bumped up to long range nuking would be nice for you, but is it fair? I feel the classes are pretty well matched. I have had some one on one fights with all Desto classes. I win some and I lose some. The key is knowing how to play your class. For exmple, I don’t feel that a squishy MDPS like a WE or WH should be able to take out a tank of the same lvl unless they utilize their special attacks (knowing their class). The RDPS folks hang back and are not in the fray so to speak, so they should play to that advantage (root n nuke). I have not played a caster in WaR yet, but I just rolled a SH, so I might be seeing what you are talking about soon.

    If you are upset because in RvR or scenario situations you die when your lines break, that to me is not a question of balance but one of group tactics. Just my 2 cents. =- )

  12. I think the balance is just right now before 1.05

    We really don’t need more damage at all. This is soooo much more fun than wow because we aren’t insta-gibbed constantly.

    To the person complaining about your ranged damage… dude quit trying to solo the entire other team. Learn to keep melee between you and the other team. When you have melee aggro remember something called “collision detection”?

  13. oh and yah, was kind of commenting on the article on 1.05… 🙂

    This is a great game that I’m totally stuck on…

    150v150 rvr the other night 😀 was laggy and needs serious work from mythic but was epic fun.

  14. Lots have posted that the honeymoon with WAR is over. Ok .. I agree it is. However, sure is a great marriage so far.

  15. I’ve been playing a lot of Fallout 3 (only thing I’ve played this past week), and it’s making me realize everything that is wrong with MMO’s, not just WAR, but pretty much every MMO out there.

    Fallout 3 is so immersive, you actual have feelings for things that are happening, you do make a difference in the world. I actually felt bad for my actions and when my Dad in the game scorned me for blowing up Megaton.

    MMO’s never have any emotion to them. They are theme parks. You run around, go here and there, but so often feel empty from the experience.

    I want an MMORPG’s that makes me feel like I get from single player RPG’s. I have never had that. Which is why I think I’m hanging up my MMO playing until one comes along that actually breaks the mold and the dozen current problems with MMO’s right now. Too many other good games out there to spend time with. Time to catch up on all I’ve been missing while playing MMO’s.

  16. @phatmhat

    You never said exactly what class you are playing, but Im assuming its Bright Wizzie or Sorcerer. Are you just not happy because its not the WoW-standard if you get hit by the mage/warlock you are done for mechanic? Unless you are looking for the ability to 2 shot someone I guess I dont see where the complaint is comming from. Bright Wizzies/Sorcs already top the damage chart in nearly every scenario I go into (the only time they dont is when theres none present).

  17. Craaaaap!
    Just closed my browser after writing a novel for Phatmhat.
    Oh well, ‘er we go again…

    Just wanted to comment on your sad feelings of squishness with your Sorc / BW. I hear what you’re saying, and have felt the same way from time to time, but also noticed something very interesting during scenarios that you should consider.

    I run quite a few toons (a Chosen, a Shadow Warrior, a Witch Hunter and a Sorceress), though so far I haven’t broken through the level 20 barrier, so keep in mind this comment is based on low-level experiences.
    I’ve found that, playing the Nordenwatch scenario both my Sorc and my WH seemed to do about the same amount of damage once they got up to lv 9 (about 14,000 – 17,000 damage per scenario). However, my Sorc *kills* far outnumbered my WH kills.
    The only reason I can think of that would make sense is that everyone sees a WH coming, even with Incognito to make them invisible. It’s hard to ignore a guy suddenly appearing behind your Healers and Casters who starts wacking away at them with a sword and making loud gunshot noises! So the WH will do a lot of damage, but draw so much attention that he’ll be dead before he can kill his target. In the case of the Sorc, I find it’s easy to hang back and wait until the Order & Destro Zerg crash into each other and you just pick off targets in the chaos than ensues. Start with a DoT that seems fairly inconspicuous (won’t draw the attention of either the target or the opposing team’s Healers), and then with your Dark Magic nearly full you can do huge damage spikes that will nuke your target to pieces. Of course, you usually end up blowing yourself up a bit in the process, which again is why you need to keep yourself low-key and out of the fray.

    The downside of this for the Sorc is exactly the upside for my WH… as a WH, I go Incognito and look for Casters who are holding back from the Zerg and stab them in the back till they die. This could be why I have so many “one-on-one” kills as a WH, but so few overall kills by not mixing it up in the Zerg.

    Anyways, long story short is that if you have a Sorc who hangs back and doesn’t draw a lot of attention, you can be *incredibly* deadly – assuming there aren’t any smart WH’s who are hunting for a target just like you!

  18. @ ScytheNoire

    Wow, so no more Tome Addict?

    I love Fallout 3 to (its about time right?!), but its just a different type of game. You say that MMO experiences feel empty, but I think its all in what YOU put in it.

    Have you ever had one of those water cooler moments in a game? One of those moments that you love to tell people in order to summarize your experience in game? I’ve had those on single player games and loved them, and then you realize well…it was great, but, it was scripted.

    The water cooler moments that I get on MMOs are almost never scripted.

  19. Scythe makes a good point. My personal burnout with WAR is more of my burnout and dissatisfaction with MMORPGs in general.

    I’m taking a short hiatus from MMORPGs altogether, but I genuinely believe that WAR does everything I LIKE about MMORPGs better than any other game out there right now.

    I wouldn’t sweat the recent trend of “I’m leaving WAR” blogs if I were you. Keep in mind, the flight of said bloggers away from WAR is probably due to the fact that 90% are PvE gamers who in some sadistic way miss the traditional raiding they’ve been doing for the past decade.

    WAR has not even been out for two months. Does anyone remember Vanguard or AoC two months after release? I certainly don’t because I’d quit both games by that two month mark while my WAR sub is still alive and well.

  20. I’m sorry but I could never bring myself to play single player game ever since MMO’s 1st started coming out… I guess I’m a social bird, that loves to kill people in game. Playing alone by myself, is well, lonely…

  21. I love WAR but I do not think about it when I am not playing it or blogging about it why?Maybe because I have seen it all before or maybe I don’t want it to take over 100% of my life. I do think Mythic tailored their game enough for people to have real lives and not feel stuck at a computer grinding. I love the time away from WAR and the time I get to sit down and play. I don’t feel pressure to play. It feels a lot like a FPS with MMO qualities. I can get in, kill a bunch of times and log off. Time well spent. I hated other games making me feel like I was alway behind everybody else even tho I was the max level. To be competitive I had to make their games a part-time job. WAR I feel like it is only a hobby again.

  22. I couldn’t agree with you more. In WoW I had a lot of similar experiences.. I thought I was doing quite well in 1v1 PVP with my shadow priest until I came across the boards for the class. Little did I know I was terribly underpowered and couldn’t beat anyone. On top of all that, unbeknownst to me I also wasn’t having fun!

    I actually started playing worse and complaining about the same crap I was reading. It took me a while to realize that I was doing just fine until I had read other people’s opinions, and it actually affected how I played. It just goes to show you how important the crowd mentality is, even when you think you’re the John McCain maverick of the MMO world. Yeah I said it.

  23. So many guildies are leaving in droves. Why does the bright wizard caster class have:
    a ranged heal debuff
    a resist debuff

    When the sorceress doesn’t? I think she’s finally getting at least a resist debuff in 1.05. Why is such a glaring unbalance not explained?

    I play a tank and I’m forced to ignore the line and chase after the red guys in the back, because if I don’t, I will die.

    Like one guildie said:
    I don’t mind if I lost to fully pvp geared rank 40 players.
    But losing to rank 32 bright mages because they are all dot specced and just killing anyone that dares to poke their head out of the spawn camp. That’s not pvp, that’s stupid.

    When there’s such a strong sense of class imbalance in the game, why doesn’t the devs say anything? The lack of visibility just seems to say to me that they don’t care or don’t play their own game.

    If they truly think their overall class design is balanced, let’s hear it.

    Sorry to bring such a terrible comment to your blog Syp, but why are people having second thoughts about this game? What’re the devs doing about it?

    When Mythic choose not to have an official online forum to address their players and let them vent/give feedback, I think it also meant that players end up venting on any outlet they can get their hands on.

  24. sorry for the double post and thank you for your comments.

    seems to me people need to play a wiz/sorc to know what im talking about.

    i cant tell you how many times im in the back blasting away and not killing anyone. sure im doing a lot of damage but im not killing anyone. meanwhile i see the mele classes running around and killing others, seemingly more quickly than i. plus they dont have to worry about dying so fast. plus they can catch the ranged guys more often than not. they see them and off they go and theres little i can do about it other than run without a second cast. and running so often feels like not playing so often.

    2 cases in point. im standing behind a wall of my teammates. blasting away. of course the wall keeps moving because off they go to fight. so often im by myself. if theres a healer great. but how often do i have that? anyway – by people or not im watching my back and blasting away and running as soon as someone sees me.

    and POOF a witch is behind me. or heck, sometimes the witch runs right me. no need to inviso.

    everyone starts attacking the witch. me. a few tanks. whoever.

    the witch kills me before i and others can kill her.

    second case. i see a witch coming at me. she gets in range for me to hit her and i start blasting away and then go for the root to then retreat and start blasting away again.

    the root doesnt take. she goes invis. oh crap. so i start running. and POOF. shes on me and kills me in mere seconds.

    so she gets to do high damamge. gets to last a long time. gets to invis and gets to kill me quickly. i get to blast without much effect and run away and die quickly – even if my whole team is beating her up she still kills me. im still running. im still not killing her.

    call it not fair or fair or balanced or not. its friggin frustrating.

    so ok i can blame the game or ask for changes or try to be a “better player” as people tell me – nearly all of them NOT wizs/sorcs.

    do mele classes have to worry about heals like i do? not nearly as much. do they get to attack ranged casters and even slow them down and get to them and kill them quickly? yes they do. do they get to attack just about anyone they want and not fear as much as i about running or dying quickly? no they dont. do they have to worry as much about blocking or location or strategy? not as much. not nearly. its basically see the target thats easiest or most important to kill and run at it and mash your buttons. if theyre running try to slow them. if theyre running out of the battle youve done your job. theyre so much out of the battle they may as well be dead, right?

    me? i have to find someone to protect me. find someon to heal me. and even THEN im still attacked and killed quickly – unless ive got a healer.

    is this how melees play? no. no wonder most people play mele.

    and please, im not saying mele ppl are bad or…this isnt hate posting or whatever. im just saying its very frustrating.

    i rolled a witch and played her to 20. had fun but i just like ranged play because of the posistioning and other tactics involved.

    it was easier to play the mele. i killed ppl more quickly as a mele than as a caster. i lived longer. i was targeted less.

    id bet if asked, most mele players would say they rolled mele rather than caster because they dont like to die as much. i dont mind dying so much. just let me kill someone in the process.

    as i see it – i die more quickly than anyone else and yet i dont kill as quickly as so many else and there is the imbalance and frustration.

  25. I honestly don’t think it’s the game itself that draws or causes most of the more rabid naysayers. It’s just a terrible trend in the general MMO community. No one likes any game anymore, we’re all jaded (the preverbial we). We’re all looking for that spark that was our first MMO without realizing that it wasn’t the game … it was us. No game will ever.ever. suck you in like your first one. It’s just never going to happen. Your first game will always hold a place in your heart, you naturally view it through rose tinted classes. It is completely folly and unfair to other games to compare them to Your Holy Grail Of Gaming.

    Mmmogrpg.com is a fantastic representation of this. Over the last few years I’ve watched every newly launched game go through it’s paces. Stage 1) They hype. The “OMG just wait till this game launches it’s gonna change the gaming world!” Stage 2) Continued hype “Yeah yeah, that game is ok. But I’m waiting on UberGame.” Stage 3) Launch and unavoidable let down “God this game sucks. Why can’t developers get it together. Total falure of a game. I’ll just have to wait on UberGamePartDuex.” Step 4) Return to step 1, start process all over again.

    I’ve decided that we just can not be happy. So I find it best to ignore everyone else’s opinion, or simply avoid it rather, and decide for myself what I do and don’t like. And for me, I’m having a freaking blast with WAR and for the first time in a long while I see myself sticking around for more than a few months.

  26. This game has managed to recapture the essence of WoW when it was most fun for me, pre-BC and pre-cross server BG’s on a pvp server with a healthy PvP population. The rivalry and camaraderie that came from knowing who you were fighting with and your enemies. All of the careers have interesting mechanics/playstyles and there’s the added bonus of open world pvp (with siege warfare) with a purpose that should be thriving.

    However, they seem to want to squash my enthusiasm with issues and annoyances, some of which funny enough, WoW had during that era as well. Pointlessly long level grinds as you approach the level cap, PvE gear that is significantly better than PvP gear, people getting insta-gibbed or nearly so, gating content by implementing gear sets/grinds that are required to advance in the endgame content. Lots of other things like client performance and wonky zone control eat at ya as well. I’ve almost resigned myself to sticking with alts till they work things out.

    There’s a great game there at the core, they just need to stop covering it in needless junk. I’ll be sticking around for a while to see if they can.

  27. @ Phat
    I have a WH as my primary and a IB as my main alt. I die a bunch with them also. As soon as I pop from stealth if I can’t kill my target quickly and run I’m dead. As far as being the squishy target in a group of tanks…I would be aiming at you too. I have a hard if not impossible time killing a group of 3 or more as either a tank or a WH.

    I don’t know how they count the kills in scenarios, but I thought if you were part of it you got credit for it. I know death blows are different.

    You probably know all this and I’m sorry if it sounds condescending I do not mean it that way, but are you targeting higher lvl toons? I found if they are 2 or more lvls above me I can’t do the damage needed to kill them.

    I don’t know what else to tell you. Dying is not a big deal to me I average 2-10 deaths per scenario depending on who I’m up against.

    Have you tried a SW or SH they can run and shoot.

  28. Couldn’t have said it better myself. I went into WAR with eager anticipation, reading blogs such as yours and finally keeling over.

    While there may be problems, it’s still up to the players to enjoy what there is and if needed, take an active role in fixing what isn’t. I’ve had so much fun in the few hours I’ve spent and I wouldn’t trade that for the hivemind.

  29. I love the game…

    Until I don’t 🙂

    I love playing, I love PQs and RvR and trying out new classes. I love scenarios and playing my archmage in T4.

    But I hate rift. I hate spending hours working on trying to flip a zone or finish a live event only to have inferior numbers run us over because they brought along rift magi. I hate running down towards the objective in scenario only to watch half of the squares in my ‘squared’ window go suddenly red when a rift magus sucks us all in.

    I hate being promised fixes to my class throughout beta only to see none of those promised fixes announced in The Big Patch.

    So these things get me down and frustrated and angry with the game. But I love grouping with my guildees and ripping through a good PQ. I love a good fight, win or lose (and I hate when it’s a lopsided fight, whether I’m on the winning or losing side)

    So overall I love the game except for those times I hate it 🙂

    But I hold out hope – the changes to Rift and to CC in the patch sound wonderful, and even though healers were initially getting nerfed, it seems that this will be reconsidered on the test server.

    And maybe one day they’ll fix the AM 😉

  30. You’re totally right about this Syp, for my first week or so I was a bit dissapointed in WAR which was unavoidable I suppose considering how hyped I was about it.

    I kept playing through T1 however and started enjoying the features of the game more and more.

    I don’t know why some people complain about the ORVR because on T2 Ironclaw we have almost constant RVR especially in Ostland/Troll Country. I have started to love the teamwork and strategy in WAR and I can see myself sticking with it for a long time.

  31. I’ve been reading forums of both WoW and War, specially considering pvp. It makes me snort everytime i read War has “really bad” balancing issues.. I think this BW thing has been blown out of proportion.
    WoW is making huge nerfs atm and they are dublicating their error of last expansion by doing it based on level 70 chars. The balance issues we are having are minor..

  32. Another comment to Phat…

    Sounds like you’re not happy with the Caster class my man, but I think most people on here will agree that what you’re describing is the typical life of a Caster, and kind of how it should be.

    Both MDPSers and RDPSers do more damage than Tanks and Healers. Personally, I think RDPSers do more damage than MDPSers – the trade-off being that MDPSers either can take / dodge the beats more (ex: Marauder for takin’ the beats and Witch Hunter for avoiding them).

    You’re also complaining that a good MDPSer who can get up next to you faster than you can nuke them is killing you – well, yeah, that’s sort of the point. If they couldn’t kill you, they wouldn’t rush you, and I know from playing a Witch Hunter I have a hard enough time killing Tanks and Healers. So then you’d have the MDPSers on here complaining too!

    Keep in mind that (at least in my experience from lower-level play) most of the time that a MDPSer rushes you and smokes you, they end up dying a few seconds later because your teammates beat the pulp out of them. So yes, you die, but it was a suicide run… and trust me, there’s been plenty of times I’ve gone in with my Witch Hunter for a suicide on a Caster / RDPSer only to end up NOT killing them and winding up dead myself.

    Last piece of advice – if you’re a Sorc, get yourself a good Chaos Chosen as a friend. One who paints their armour bright yellow and screams “LOOK AT ME!!!!!”. I also play a Chosen and I’m constantly looking for RDPSers and Healers to team up with because I know I can’t kill anything without them (I know my role – a meat shield – and I play it). The Chosen can cast Guard on you and absorb half your damage – this is key, because the Chosen has the health you lack, while you have the damage output that a Chosen (Tank) lacks… and you can attack anyone on the battlefield, where as a slow-ass Chosen often has trouble chasing down their targets. The Chosen’s main tactic is Auras, which are AoE debuffs… so if you have good AoE attacks you’d compliment a Chosen very well.

    I don’t think RDPSers are nerfed / broken – I think they’re great. What I do think is you haven’t been very lucky in finding good teammates who keep you alive long enough to enjoy your toon. I’ll be the first to admit, it’s hard to find a good Tank who knows better than to rush the enemy front lines and leave their Casters / RDPSers exposed… but its hard to resist the allure of smashing those damn Stunties skulls in!

    If you really can’t stomach the idea of getting killed by suicidal Witch Hunters / Witch Elves and feel you’re too squishy to be of any value, give either the Witch Hunter or Shadow Warrior a shot. I play both, and find them to be a really good balance between survivability and tactical ranged damage.

    Wait, scratch that – the Shadow Warrior is a really good balance. My Witch Hunter is suicidal and squishy, but at least he’s got a lot of style!

    To Wantsumbier…

    Yes, if you contribute to a kill it’ll count under your “kills” column. But next time you run a scenario, look a little farther right and you’ll see another column that’s for “one-on-one” or “solo” kills. Those are the kills you got on your own where nobody else contributed. I find the only time I rack up a lot of solo kills is with Stealthers like the Witch Hunter, where I can sneak up behind the Casters / RDPSers and smoke one or two of them before I get nuked, or if I lay in wait near the respawn zone and pick off Casters / RDPSers who are trying to get back into the fray by using Flee (thus eating up all their Action Points… muah!)

  33. […] WAR isn’t perfect, but it is a damn fine game.  I cannot improve on his article, so go read it. […]

  34. thank you for your comments everyone and for your patience 🙂

    its really quite simple. if im going to be able to be killed in 3 or 4 hits then i want to be able to kill someone in 3 or 4 hits. inversely, aren’t i squishy because im able to squish others just as easily as they me?

    but its not that way. everyones told me i need a guard or i need to try and not be noticed…

    seems the balance comes in team play not solo play.

    seriously – have to get on the test server and see who kills say a maurader the fastest – a wiz or other mdps calsses. who kills the witch fastest the wiz or the other mdps classes.

    guess ill dot and run like i hear wizs do. can you blame them?

  35. just so you know…i think i was spoiled in that my first game was daoc where i played a body sorc in charge of cc and dds. i had tons of control and wicked single target dds. and ill admit…daoc was swayed to casters. maybe mythic switched for war.

  36. […] game sinks in, and bloggers hopefully become more balanced in both their praise and criticism.  I’ve recently stated that I do like WAR, even with its faults and flaws, and will be sticking with it.  Keen has […]

  37. TL; DR: I wanted to like it, but I didn’t. Good luck to you if you do.

    Well, I hate to inject a bit of negativity, but I let my subscription run out today, without renewal. I haven’t posted before, but I’ve read Syp’s blog for a while, and it seems like as good a place as any to work though, as the Americans say, my Issues. Feel free to skip, but if 50% is the magic number, and Syp’s post is 65, I guess this is about a 35 to balance it.

    I agree with what several posters have said about making the mistake of blaming WAR for a more general disenchantment with MMORPGS (for me, focused mostly on the time commitment), but I do think War has a few problems.

    The three main ones for me, in reverse order of importance, are its godawful crafting system, the failure of ORvR, and above all, the punishing repetition of much of the leveling process.

    I enjoy crafting; I liked the idea of being part of a web of interconnected trade skills, and started as a cultivator. This was a mistake. Cultivating is a beautifully designed mini game that is a total resource hog and supplies no unique in-game benefit apart from vanity products. I switched to butchery, and was amazed to discover I could make more or less the same pots and that in any case the greens cultivated while farming made as much money as my potions. The potions themselves serve only to make grinding marginally faster; the buff potions fade on death, and the situational healing or damage shields have timers too long to be of much use in scenarios.

    ORvR? Well, in 27 levels, I saw destro twice. Once was in a protracted, unbalanced and genuinely fun sprawling battle that saw me spamming hold the line to keep our beleaguered ranged up against a significantly larger destro force, while praying that someone would arrive to flank the force we were holding. They didn’t, but it was fun anyway. The second time, a small force of destro supported by the champions wasted us, effortlessly, every time we tried to get up the inner keep ramp. That was much less fun. Twice, in 27 levels. Other experiments in RvR consisted mostly of simple PvE fights, made annoying by arbitrary do-not-cross-the-line resets.

    The killer, for me, is the leveling. I can sit around in camp, and run the same scenarios (and, frankly, mostly, it’s gonna be the same 2-3) for god knows how long. Alternatively, I can quest, killing mob x or do PQs killing mob y. But the problem is this: the same scenarios for 10 levels, done random or with guildies, just gets old, and the PvE is trivial. I was an SM, and I would pull 5 mobs, killing them with the same three keys. With a healer, I was grinding PQs 10-15 mobs at a time. For stage 2-3, you either had a party and rolled the thing in 5 minutes, or you abandoned it and moved to the next one. Getting progression was time consuming without being challenging.

    Anyway, I left. I salute those of you who are staying. Somewhere in there is a great PvP game, and scenarios, for a while, were genuinely fun. But forcing my way through another 13 levels of it, only to face the same 6 scenarios and the same retarded PvE engine looking for the times when chance delivers a challenging fight – no.

    Whatever it is, y’all have fun.

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