A Rank Odor

October 8, 2008

Snafzg went on a frothy-mouthed rant about something I’ve been hearing — and experiencing — a lot more lately: that leveling up in Warhammer Online can be an uneven, uncertain process that can result in a frustrating journey to 40. The problem is, and I’ll attest to this, there’s not enough PvE XP to be had in each tier, unless you’re willing to travel to one of the other same-tier zones in another pairing. You can do the quests, you can do the PQs, but sooner or later, you’re going to find yourself “XP stranded” — too low of a rank for the PvE content in your pairing you’ve yet to do. And since PvE grinding is not beneficial in terms of XP/hour, this presents an issue.

Now, sure, you can bypass this all with one of two solutions: (1) travel to another pairing and do the quests/PQs there, or (2) heavily supplement your PvE experience with lots of scenarios and open world RvR. Both offer the XP to get over the level hump that you need to keep progressing, but they’re not great solutions. For (1), many players — myself included — want to stay within the pairing that we’ve been in and “save” the other two pairings’ content for future alts. It may seem silly, but it’s been repeated enough so that it should be taken seriously. And for (2), WAR promised to be a game that you could level from 1-40 solely through PvE, as well as solely through PvP (with the devs hoping that you’d mix it up between the two). This puts a serious crimp in that leveling scheme, forcing players to come up with less-than-optimal leveling plans.

SpyridonZ on the WHA Forums makes a few decent observations about leveling in WAR:

Here is a valid comparison of the different methods of gameplay for Experience gain…

For XP – Scenarios > Normal Questing > Public Questing > Open-RvR (Note: Open-RvR is highly dependant on situation, and does have a good potential for XP, but in a typical situation, does not give very good XP at all.)

For Gear – Rare Drops > Public Quests > Normal Quests > Scenarios (Note – Rare Drops can happen anywhere – in PvE or RvR. Open-RvR was not listed here, as it is not a good method for gaining gear until Rank 40, as at that point your Renown levels can surpass your own level. Until that point, Renown gear is sub-par in comparison to the other gear types.)

His conclusion is that to maximize both XP/hour and gear upgrades, your average player should be doing a heavy mix of scenarios, PQs and quests, or else they risk falling behind in one of these areas. This is why, from a RvR standpoint, players have been calling out for more drops and better itemization, and why, from a PvE standpoint, players simply want more XP for their effort. The latter should be relatively easy to fix, either by bumping up XP gained from mobs/quests, or add more quests per zone (or, barring that, more repeatable quests).



  1. Wondering if you saw how many comments Snafzg got and wanted your fair share;)

    I could concede that Tier 1 is too heavily weighted with quests/level and gives the wrong impression. Run even a couple scenarios and you will find yourself well ahead of your zone.

    I said this on Snafzg’s blog, but games can’t be all things to all people. This is not a game where PvE is the focus, and you can level from start to finish via PvE, but yes you will likely have to do some grinding AND leave your pairing. Since this isn’t really a PvE game, I don’t think people should expect differently.

    In WoW, a PVE GAME, you won’t be able to level two toons without seeing 90% of the same content! Yet some think Mythic should have 3 areas where you can level from 1-40 in a game that is primarily RvR? This would be a waste of resources. And, I’d argue WoW is wasting resources on trying to produce subpar PvP. WARs PVE is good, it’s just not the focus.

    On my elf, I have explored about 3 dwarf chapters early in T2, that’s it. Maybe it will be more later, but I’m at rank 25 and back ahead of my current hub. Of course, I am mixing scenarios and PvE.

    Mythic has to be very careful with PvE, too. Make questing too efficient and you suck the life out of your RvR game at lower tiers.

    This isn’t to say it doesn’t need some tweaking, but there’s an area that should really be addressed first, Open RvR, and to be honest, it seems a bit silly that people are wasting time discussing PvE improvements when Open RvR is supposed to be Mythic’s bread and butter. At the lower tiers it is rare because the rewards there don’t match those in scenarios. I think this is a real issue.

    Sorry for the length here, but I appreciate both your and Snafzg’s blogs but I find these topics a bit like reading a fantasy novel and then saying, well I’d like some more cowboys in it. (Okay, not quite the same, but you get my meaning).


  2. There are plenty of PvE quests to level quickly. In fact, I was leveling too quickly and my career rank was outpacing my renown rank by a lot. Why do people have a problem with traveling to other tiers? No one complained in other games about having to travel to all the zones.

  3. I’m not convinced this is a great issue although I guess I’ll concede the point about going to a second pairing to get the needed xp if you want to solely PvE. I find it interesting that Snafzg felt he should be further along considering the time he spent. Isn’t that completely up to the developer to determine? While I can understand your point Syp about reserving other tiers for alts, it may not be the ideal that the developers were thinking about when designing the levelling curve. Sure, you can PvE 100% of the time, but that doesn’t necessarily mean you can do it in one pairing. I think the forum poster was very astute and nailed Mythic’s philosophy. Do a combination and keep it balanced. I’m sure I’ll play an alt at some point (same strategy as Syp right now) but I am not reserving tiers for alts. I’d miss out on many guildy happenings that way!

  4. I haven’t gone much to other pairings, except to help friends with PQs over there – I’m sticking to Dwarf and scenarios and Altdorf quests and Gunbad. Gunbad’s had some great gear, you can go in a biggish group and still get decent stuff. XP isn’t great, but if you do the quests there it is. I got 11k xp for one quest alone.

    I don’t mind it slowing up too much, it inspires me to explore more, and help others a bit and take some time before the craziness of T4 hits.

    But 1.02 will help a lot, if you can move to T4 scenarios at rank 28 now, it means you have a choice of T3 and T4 ones, which means a lot more variety.

  5. Less than a month into the game and people are already maxing out leveling. And that means not enough XP is available.

    We have become victims of the fast food age and forgot how to savor stuff.

  6. I ran into this at about level 13 as a Black Orc. I saw it coming for the last couple levels, and when I 12, I was staring down the barrel of Chapter 7 quests and PQ’s. I was at a point where I could continue to quest with mobs 3 and 4 levels above me, and who would – if the trend continued – only get more and more difficult as I pressed on into the greenskin chapters. My contribution in the chapter 7 PQ, with level 17 heroic mobs was lackluster. People were trying to make it work by forming warbands as we hit the brick wall, but it was my impression that we were fighting an uphill battle.

    I examined my options, RvR scenarios, world RvR, or leaving to another pairing were immediately apparent.

    My server pop is med/med and as a result world RvR isn’t exactly booming. I’ve run into exactly one Order player in an RvR lake. While in tier 1, scenarios were popping every 15 minutes which was pretty viable for leveling, but in tier 2, the wait times grew very long, and make leveling via scenarios less efficient than running chapter 7.

    I didn’t want to go to another pairing, I loved the greenskin story line and didn’t want to be anywhere else. I felt to venture to another pairing would thrust me into the middle of a story line that I had no background with, and therefore little to no invested interest.

    Ultimately I decided to run over to the dark elf pairing and do the quests around chapter 6 and the beginning of chapter 7 to see if I can get to around 15 or 16 before headed back to the greenskin zone. I’m not enjoying the dark elf zone and as a result, my orc has stalled at 14.

    I rerolled a sorcerer and have been leveling almost exclusively via scenarios, but I know once I hit tier two, the fun will be over again.

    I’m frustrated, I want to play my orc but without anything but pve that I’m not enjoying to progress, I can’t bring myself to sit through it.

  7. I agree with Duht. I’m having the same issue. He pretty much said everything I needed to say. They could either:
    1.lower the xp required to level Which would be the easiest fix I think.
    2.Make more xp for everything. Scenarios,PQ’s,Quests etc.

    I have to say that I did like the pace of the Teir 1 Zone it was perfect.

  8. I do find leveling up via Scenario’s to be the fastest way to do it. I’ve been doing quests, but it’s MUCH slower way to level up.

    PQ’s is the only way to get good gear. Simply put, quest gear is mediocre and RvR gear is utter crap.

    So they basically force players to do Scenario’s to get any type of decent XP leveling, and are forced to do PQ’s to get the good gear. It’s kinda nasty, and hopefully they’ll up the drop rate of gear in Scenario’s or make RvR gear more useful, because as it is now, it’s utter craptastic.

  9. My DoK hit rank 26 last night and Renown 21. I spent most of my time from lvl 1 – 15 just doing quests and the random Open RvR that was happening somewhere. Since you can queue for all the scenarios, I have spent 100% of my time doing every scenario that pops and just doing some PQ’s in the mean time and the occational quest. I find that the Scenarios have been popping in T3 so quickly that it’s hard to quest now but I can get some kills in a PQ just fine and a lucky roll to get a nice item. With in no time I shot up from rank 15 all the way up to 26 just from scenarios and turning in repeatable quests for doing scenarios.

  10. Just to set the record straight, I’m very happy with the overal XP rate up until now if you mix RvR scenarios with PvE, but I’m a bit disappointed that focusing solely on PvE doesn’t yield nearly the same result as if you focused solely on RvR scenarios.

    Over a 15-minute period, I’d say scenarios are about twice as efficient in terms of XP reward for your time. I haven’t even factored in the additional progress you’re making toward realm rank, which also boosts your character’s performance in the game overall.

  11. @Snaf

    Not to keep bugging you on this, but I think you are trying to fit an orc choppa into an elven scabbard.

    This is not a PvE focused game.

    I could be wrong, but I think that scenarios are “twice as efficient” for your time as PvE for a reason (some people have run some numbers and feel that losing a scenario is about = to question, though there are too many variables for that to be true as well). It might not be the exact ratio they want but I think it is intended to work that way in order to help people mix it with RvR so that there is RvR.

    And, to be honest, even though I consider myself a PvE player at heart, I think that the imbalance is the way it should work. Yes they said you could PvE all the way if you want, and you can. But, they didn’t say it would be easy.

    Like I said above, the bigger issue is Open RvR, which is really what this game is supposed to be about yet it is nowhere nearly as efficient in XP, or even renown.

    Nuff said from me or I’ll need to get my own blog;)

  12. But why should there be a forced imbalance at all? Yeah, the game is all about RvR but RvR is not equal to PvP. As a concept, RvR is your realm versus the other realm in both PvE and PvP efforts.

    I can see them not wanting to make PvE gains equal to or better than PvP, but to have such a disparity is basically turning their back on a core audience – those who lean more toward PvE but could be converted to PvP.

  13. Because they have to focus the game. A game that tries to be all things to all people is wasting resources. People that are solely into or even far more PvE focused should probably play a different game.

    Are two realms competing at how many quests and how fast really the focus of RvR? It is a factor, but it’s not that gripping.

    Your second paragraph refers to me by the way. No PvP here before WAR.

  14. Apples and oranges

    Why are we comparing the rates of various experiences when the truth is that we should be considering “Is it fun?”

    For the hardcore PvP’ers hell let them bash each other to pieces and have fun doing so. They don’t have to kill the rats, collect tails and get political if they do not want to. The PvE gang get intricate storylines with background provided in a tome and love that.

    Me, I am a tourist and do a bit of both. I like to level but sometimes I wish I could drag the level BACK so I could explore areas with something fowl happenning.

    If we do level fast that is NOT a sign of bad design. I might point you to Guild Wars to show an example of how the end of levelling is not the end of play.

    If there is more to do, lots to do. people to hunt and things to kill . . . I am happy.


Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )


Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: